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Old 08-07-2007, 08:56 AM   #1
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what are the best sbc heads?

Ive been looking at some different heads for my upcoming build, some aspects of the build arnt worked out yet but what are the best all around power making sbc heads. Ive heard good things about the afr 227 (i think thats right) race heads, and the dart 11 degree heads, but i heard the 11 degree are race only and require block modifications to fit a stardard non world product block. Does anybody have any info on these dart 11 degrees or the best sbc heads in general?
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Old 08-07-2007, 09:02 AM   #2
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The 227's and these dart 11 deg. heads are completely different monsters...

Where to start - the 11 degree head is gonna require custom valvetrain, custom intake, headers, custom pistons. It's really a full race application.

The AFR 227's are a badass 23 degree head regardless if they are the raised runner or not. A lot more cost effective too I'd believe.

As far as the best head out there - the options depend on how deep your pockets are, there are endless amounts of small block chevy heads - 23deg, 18deg, 15deg, 11deg---- but the more valve angle leads to A LOT more expensive build - then again your going to make absolutely stupid power.

Couple more goals as far as what your building would help with head choice.
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Old 08-07-2007, 09:06 AM   #3
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still deciding on cubic inch and overall power adder setup, i have a detailed parts list for a s400 turbo build, but some parts of me want nitrous. basically a 7-800hp build. probably a dart little M. Still trying to deciding cubic inches and overall rpm goals. But what heads have some of you guys gone with and what do you recommend.

edit: im leaning tword the afr's after seeing some dyno results.
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Old 08-07-2007, 03:23 PM   #4
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I have the 227's on a 383 stock 2 bolt main block. It has high compression and puts around 500 to the wheels. I also have a big cubic small block with a dart tall deck block set up for nitrous that is 850 to 900 fwhp on motor. It has the dart 15 degree heads done by Clements head service.
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Old 08-07-2007, 04:01 PM   #5
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i have afr 220cc heads and love them. my motor made 660hp on a nitrous tune up(really rich and cold spark plugs). motor is a 421 sbc with only 11.1 comp.afr are defently a great street strip heads.i have heard the dart 11 nd 18 degree heads make crazy power but im not willing to spend $4000-$6000 in heads and accesories
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Old 08-07-2007, 08:38 PM   #6
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Arao makes the best heads but I don't think you want to spend that kind of cash.

I'm a Brodix man.
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Old 08-07-2007, 09:55 PM   #7
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not bashing brodix but i heard that the size of the flow bench they use leads to lower cfm than advertised, that true?
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Old 08-07-2007, 11:27 PM   #8
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not bashing brodix but i heard that the size of the flow bench they use leads to lower cfm than advertised, that true?
Only on the newer casting have people been saying that, may not be true for some of the older ones. I'm on my 3rd set of AFR's to me the best all around head. If you plan on keeping the setup that we've been talking about the past few days, i dont see you needing the 227's. Just as much HP can be had out of a 210cc head. Even though they cost about the same, i dont know if the "overkill" on runner size has as much effect on a turbo cars as they do on natrually aspirated. There's plenty of guys running stock heads on mustangs and making 500hp, and i dont think they are even over 150cc runners.
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Old 08-08-2007, 01:03 AM   #9
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Only on the newer casting have people been saying that, may not be true for some of the older ones. I'm on my 3rd set of AFR's to me the best all around head. If you plan on keeping the setup that we've been talking about the past few days, i dont see you needing the 227's. Just as much HP can be had out of a 210cc head. Even though they cost about the same, i dont know if the "overkill" on runner size has as much effect on a turbo cars as they do on natrually aspirated. There's plenty of guys running stock heads on mustangs and making 500hp, and i dont think they are even over 150cc runners.

that what i was thinking, except maybe the runner size would help boosted cars, but i dont think turbo cars would benifit much from it, maybe blower cars though
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Old 08-08-2007, 01:12 AM   #10
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jesus christ, those arao heads flow 348 cfm at .400 lift
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Old 08-08-2007, 08:06 AM   #11
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jesus christ, those arao heads flow 348 cfm at .400 lift
Those bad boys look amazing. Good luck finding $8k to drop on a set of heads though Ahh, a 32-valve LSX would be awesome though.
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Old 08-08-2007, 02:17 PM   #12
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have the numbers ever been posted on LSX arao headed engine, last i saw the thread was still talking crap cause of no numbers.
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Old 08-08-2007, 04:21 PM   #13
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This is a loaded question. I personally like sb2.2, however 18 degree stuff is a pretty good way to go if you want to build headers, My 383 runs un ported darts and with 10.3:1 makes 460rwhp through a 5spd.
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Old 08-10-2007, 07:20 PM   #14
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If you're talking about 23 degree heads (and I assume you are because all the others are just rediculously expensive to use) give Mike a call at TEA and ask him about the TFS heads he just did for me. They don't actually have a CNC program for them yet but I'll bet they are going to offer them once I get some real world testing done on them. They're a little on the costly side for 23 degree heads but if they do what we're thinking they're going to do, they'll be well worth the money. I'll have some track and dyno numbers on them on a couple of different engine displacements, intake and carb combos, cam choices and compression ratio changes over the next few months. These heads are really going to shine on a 4.125" or bigger bore.
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Old 08-10-2007, 08:10 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simplybebop View Post
not bashing brodix but i heard that the size of the flow bench they use leads to lower cfm than advertised, that true?
I'm not defending Brodix by any means here but,

I think you just tapped into one of the most common complaints with a vast majority of aftermarket cylinder head makers/re-workers. There has been precious few that have purchased new cylinder heads with a flow rate of "X", had them flow tested themselves and found the advertised numbers to be 100% true. Most find themselves a little disappointed.

I use to use a flow bench on a regular basis at my old place of employment. One word gives an explanation on correct/incorrect flow numbers. This word is 'advertised'. It's really no different than "advertised" duration on a camshaft. Two different companies, same exact grind, one advertises 292 duration and the other advertises 302 duration, but they are both the same @ .050. What most cylinder head companies don't readily disclose in their advertising of a head and it's flow numbers is at what lift. An advertised flow of 205 cfm from company "A" may have been flow tested at .600 lift. Whereas advertised flow of 215 cfm from company "B" may have been tested at .650 lift.

The best thing to do when choosing your cylinder heads as per flow is to find out @ what lift the testing was done.
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Old 08-10-2007, 11:41 PM   #16
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I'm not defending Brodix by any means here but,

I think you just tapped into one of the most common complaints with a vast majority of aftermarket cylinder head makers/re-workers. There has been precious few that have purchased new cylinder heads with a flow rate of "X", had them flow tested themselves and found the advertised numbers to be 100% true. Most find themselves a little disappointed.

I use to use a flow bench on a regular basis at my old place of employment. One word gives an explanation on correct/incorrect flow numbers. This word is 'advertised'. It's really no different than "advertised" duration on a camshaft. Two different companies, same exact grind, one advertises 292 duration and the other advertises 302 duration, but they are both the same @ .050. What most cylinder head companies don't readily disclose in their advertising of a head and it's flow numbers is at what lift. An advertised flow of 205 cfm from company "A" may have been flow tested at .600 lift. Whereas advertised flow of 215 cfm from company "B" may have been tested at .650 lift.

The best thing to do when choosing your cylinder heads as per flow is to find out @ what lift the testing was done.
thats why i like AFR, all their flow numbers are posted at the corresponding lift. my AFR comps (PN 1100) they adviertises like 308cfm at .600, though the only flowed 303cfm on the actual flowbench, there could be differences on how they got that number(different flow bench etc). Now after some extra "magic" by tony mamo @ afr they are up to 318cfm, so i'm VERY happy with AFR
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Old 08-11-2007, 01:01 AM   #17
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yeah all heads i have looked at listed the cfm at different lifts. What i was stating was say advertised lift at .600 is 290 , some say its more in the 270 area. But not knocking brodix
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Old 08-11-2007, 01:52 AM   #18
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well 20 cfm is pretty far off from the advertised, even 2 cfm is alot when you're paying in upwards of $3000 for a set of heads, sounds like something you would expenct from a lower end pair of heads, in as-cast form
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Old 08-11-2007, 03:25 AM   #19
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those are some of the results i have heard second hand anyway, i really dont belive it and would have to see it with my own eyes, but not knocking brodix just wondering if anybody has seen this. But thanks everybody on the head help
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